Victor, This is a question that has truthfully, perplexed the Church to some extent for centuries. The Catechism talks about praying for the souls of babies who have died and loosely brings those of aborted children into that category. That being said, I have a personal stake in this one so here is what I have been reassured of by our priests in Rachel's Vineyard. As parents who seek forgiveness for committing the sin of abortion, we also have the desire that our children would have been baptized, so on faith I and all those who have been forgiven and healed, believe that our children are in heaven. Personally, I find it hard to believe that our loving and merciful God would punish my daughter for the sin her mother and father committed. To any woman or man reading this who is in need of healing from abortion, please trust that your children love and forgive you, know that God loves and forgives you if you ask Him to. I can only say this in closing: I know in the depths of my heart that it was the prayers of my daughter who brought me to healing; she continues to be a powerful intercessor. Victor, most of what I said here is not theological, but what you may not be aware of is that this question is on the minds of most post-abortive men and women and needs to be handled delicately and compassionately. I thought a little first hand witness might be helpful. For anyone seeking healing from abortion, please contact Rachelsvineyard.org This EWTN link also sheds a little light on this subject, but not very specifically for aborted children(just a brief mention) http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur79.htm
They go straight to heaven I think. Love and the good old common sense the Lord has given us tells us that this is likely the case. There is something called the "Baptism of desire" and I believe this is what happens to babies that are miscarried, aborted, or die before baptism.
I like to think that Mother Mary raises them until they reach "spiritual maturity" :) Though, maybe they are brought to this maturity in an instant. With God anything is possible!
Yes Karinann; I am very well aware "that this question is on the minds of most post-abortive men and women and needs to be handled delicately and compassionately."
I tend to agree with Mary on this. Karinann, you say: "... here is what I have been reassured of by our priests in Rachel's Vineyard. As parents who seek forgiveness for committing the sin of abortion, we also have the desire that our children would have been baptized, so on faith I and all those who have been forgiven and healed, believe that our children are in heaven."
This implies that those parents who have NOT sought forgiveness have somehow destined their aborted children elsewhere.
I cannot believe this and would agree with Mary that ALL aborted children go to Heaven; and indeed, no doubt, pray for us and forgive us.
There was a time when the Catholic Church said that un-baptised babies who die go to "limbo". Wherever that is, and whatever happens there. I'm interested that neither of you mentioned that.
Victor, I remember finding a prayer card for praying for the baptism of aborted babies. I looked online to see if this was a valid prayer, authorized by the Church. Back then I found out that we could not pray this prayer but now I can't remember the reason or the source :-( Sorry. But I did find this article:http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4050
I believe whole-heartedly that whether the parents have repented and been healed or for those who have not sought forgiveness... those babies are in heaven.
They are innocent. It was not their choice to die before being born.
God is a loving, merciful God and he knows and loves these babies. They will not be punished for the sins of their parents. It's not theological...just emotional but I believe it.
I like Mary's idea of them being care for by Our Blessed Mother. That is a wonderfully comforting thought.
Limbo isn't mentioned in the CCC, but it was part of the dialogue for Catholics over 60. The CCC says something about trusting them to God's Mercy, which isn't as straightforward as I would prefer. I was recently reading Get Us Out of Here, and a woman who prays, and suffers for souls in puratory to "get out" did mention Limbo, but didn't mention where she heard it--from a suffering soul, or because she is over 60 was part of the dialogue back then. She did say that it only takes a single mass to raise a baby from Limbo to Heaven--but as I said, it doesn't say why she believes this. If what she said were true we should be offering every single mass for all the babies being aborted that day. Don't you think if this were the case God, or Mary would make sure someone got that message out to people. It is a counter-intuitive thing to think that aborted or stillborn babies would not in the mercy of God be brought up to heaven. I really hope Mary is right. I also have the wishful thinking that this were more definitively taught in our Catholic tradition and catechism. In the absence of that, I would be happy if there was a message from Mary from either Kibeho or Medjugorie--even if it fell under "not yet approved" or "private revelation", it would be a relief. This is a touchy topic, I can tell you, not just related to abortion, but also those who have suffered stillborn births.
Limbo was taught as a possibility for those babies who died without being baptized. The Church hasn't repudiated this, but the discussion has stopped post Vatican II. However, since in eternity there is only heaven and hell, at some point, if there were a limbo, the souls there would be given the opportunity to choose.
We know that God has created us for Himself. We also know that for God there is only eternal now - all things are present to Him. So if this is true, and if we pray that He accept all unbaptized babies who have never had the chance to be baptized, in His great charity He will take them. I pray for all the pagans from the beginning of time - that God will take them to Himself. Then I trust in His love, mercy, and justice.
Along this line, the parents of babies who die before birth still have authority over the child. Their will that the baby be freed from original sin has to count in God's eyes just as it does in infant baptism.
I don't think we should stress too much about these points but just trust in God's mercy and love and do all we can to stop abortion.
Just as the Holy Innocents, Aborted Babies are "baptized by the blood" that they shed...innocently...I imagine this makes them a type of "martyr". As Karinann said, this would especially be true for those with parents who sought forgiveness and would have baptized their child...this post makes me wonder...if the real question we are asking is not so much "where do aborted babies go" but "where do unbaptized children go"? I believe that God KNOWS that baby's soul and knows if he/she would have accepted the Truth and Faith and Salvation and therefore showers His mercy and love upon them accordingly...much the same as it will be for all of us in the end...I mean, what if we die with sin on our soul but had INTENDED to get to Confession and couldn't? What if a child is raised in a home by a fallen away Catholic and therefore the parent has failed in providing the opportunity to receive the Sacraments?
I think of ALL of these things when we pray the St. Michael prayer in our rosary "Bring ALL souls to heaven, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE MOST NEED OF THY MERCY".
Victor,
ReplyDeleteThis is a question that has truthfully, perplexed the Church to some extent for centuries. The Catechism talks about praying for the souls of babies who have died and loosely brings those of aborted children into that category.
That being said, I have a personal stake in this one so here is what I have been reassured of by our priests in Rachel's Vineyard. As parents who seek forgiveness for committing the sin of abortion, we also have the desire that our children would have been baptized, so on faith I and all those who have been forgiven and healed, believe that our children are in heaven.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that our loving and merciful God would punish my daughter for the sin her mother and father committed.
To any woman or man reading this who is in need of healing from abortion, please trust that your children love and forgive you, know that God loves and forgives you if you ask Him to.
I can only say this in closing: I know in the depths of my heart that it was the prayers of my daughter who brought me to healing; she continues to be a powerful intercessor.
Victor, most of what I said here is not theological, but what you may not be aware of is that this question is on the minds of most post-abortive men and women and needs to be handled delicately and compassionately. I thought a little first hand witness might be helpful.
For anyone seeking healing from abortion, please contact Rachelsvineyard.org
This EWTN link also sheds a little light on this subject, but not very specifically for aborted children(just a brief mention) http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur79.htm
They go straight to heaven I think. Love and the good old common sense the Lord has given us tells us that this is likely the case. There is something called the "Baptism of desire" and I believe this is what happens to babies that are miscarried, aborted, or die before baptism.
ReplyDeleteI like to think that Mother Mary raises them until they reach "spiritual maturity" :) Though, maybe they are brought to this maturity in an instant. With God anything is possible!
Thank you Karinann and Mary,
ReplyDeleteYes Karinann; I am very well aware "that this question is on the minds of most post-abortive men and women and needs to be handled delicately and compassionately."
I tend to agree with Mary on this. Karinann, you say: "... here is what I have been reassured of by our priests in Rachel's Vineyard. As parents who seek forgiveness for committing the sin of abortion, we also have the desire that our children would have been baptized, so on faith I and all those who have been forgiven and healed, believe that our children are in heaven."
This implies that those parents who have NOT sought forgiveness have somehow destined their aborted children elsewhere.
I cannot believe this and would agree with Mary that ALL aborted children go to Heaven; and indeed, no doubt, pray for us and forgive us.
There was a time when the Catholic Church said that un-baptised babies who die go to "limbo". Wherever that is, and whatever happens there. I'm interested that neither of you mentioned that.
God bless.
Victor, I remember finding a prayer card for praying for the baptism of aborted babies. I looked online to see if this was a valid prayer, authorized by the Church. Back then I found out that we could not pray this prayer but now I can't remember the reason or the source :-( Sorry. But I did find this article:http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4050
ReplyDeleteI believe whole-heartedly that whether the parents have repented and been healed or for those who have not sought forgiveness... those babies are in heaven.
ReplyDeleteThey are innocent. It was not their choice to die before being born.
God is a loving, merciful God and he knows and loves these babies. They will not be punished for the sins of their parents. It's not theological...just emotional but I believe it.
I like Mary's idea of them being care for by Our Blessed Mother. That is a wonderfully comforting thought.
Thank you Esther for your very helpful link at this particular time. Much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteNoreen, I agree with you 100%.
God bless.
Thank you Colleen. It seems logical to me.
ReplyDeleteIn medieval times it was believed that those who die with original sin go to limbo. But this is NOT Catholic doctrine, I believe.
God bless.
Limbo isn't mentioned in the CCC, but it was part of the dialogue for Catholics over 60. The CCC says something about trusting them to God's Mercy, which isn't as straightforward as I would prefer. I was recently reading Get Us Out of Here, and a woman who prays, and suffers for souls in puratory to "get out" did mention Limbo, but didn't mention where she heard it--from a suffering soul, or because she is over 60 was part of the dialogue back then. She did say that it only takes a single mass to raise a baby from Limbo to Heaven--but as I said, it doesn't say why she believes this. If what she said were true we should be offering every single mass for all the babies being aborted that day. Don't you think if this were the case God, or Mary would make sure someone got that message out to people. It is a counter-intuitive thing to think that aborted or stillborn babies would not in the mercy of God be brought up to heaven. I really hope Mary is right. I also have the wishful thinking that this were more definitively taught in our Catholic tradition and catechism. In the absence of that, I would be happy if there was a message from Mary from either Kibeho or Medjugorie--even if it fell under "not yet approved" or "private revelation", it would be a relief. This is a touchy topic, I can tell you, not just related to abortion, but also those who have suffered stillborn births.
ReplyDeleteThank you Colleen for your very wise words.
ReplyDeleteI discovered Limbo through the Internet, some Catholic website or other.
You are right in your belief that ALL aborted and still-born births go to Heaven. I cannot believe that God would wish otherwise.
It is a shame that the Church is not more forthright in its advice on this very sensitive subject to parents and families of such babies.
If God can have mercy and forgive sinners when they repent, He can also welcome to Heaven those who have not had a chance to sin.
God bless you.
Limbo was taught as a possibility for those babies who died without being baptized. The Church hasn't repudiated this, but the discussion has stopped post Vatican II. However, since in eternity there is only heaven and hell, at some point, if there were a limbo, the souls there would be given the opportunity to choose.
ReplyDeleteWe know that God has created us for Himself. We also know that for God there is only eternal now - all things are present to Him. So if this is true, and if we pray that He accept all unbaptized babies who have never had the chance to be baptized, in His great charity He will take them. I pray for all the pagans from the beginning of time - that God will take them to Himself. Then I trust in His love, mercy, and justice.
Along this line, the parents of babies who die before birth still have authority over the child. Their will that the baby be freed from original sin has to count in God's eyes just as it does in infant baptism.
I don't think we should stress too much about these points but just trust in God's mercy and love and do all we can to stop abortion.
Trusting in God is the right way, I think.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Just as the Holy Innocents, Aborted Babies are "baptized by the blood" that they shed...innocently...I imagine this makes them a type of "martyr". As Karinann said, this would especially be true for those with parents who sought forgiveness and would have baptized their child...this post makes me wonder...if the real question we are asking is not so much "where do aborted babies go" but "where do unbaptized children go"? I believe that God KNOWS that baby's soul and knows if he/she would have accepted the Truth and Faith and Salvation and therefore showers His mercy and love upon them accordingly...much the same as it will be for all of us in the end...I mean, what if we die with sin on our soul but had INTENDED to get to Confession and couldn't?
ReplyDeleteWhat if a child is raised in a home by a fallen away Catholic and therefore the parent has failed in providing the opportunity to receive the Sacraments?
I think of ALL of these things when we pray the St. Michael prayer in our rosary "Bring ALL souls to heaven, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE MOST NEED OF THY MERCY".